Results[]
Tuesday, December 15, 2015
Ulti's Analysis[]
| Round | Contest Final |
|---|---|
| Match # | 127 |
| Match Date | Tuesday, December 15, 2015 |
| Oracle Expectations |
Undertale - 51.45% 63 for - 8 against |
| GameFAQs Prediction |
Undertale - 0.91% |
First and foremost, that Asgore picture is the best match picture in contest history and it's not particularly close. I'd get into the symbolism of it, but tumblr handled that well enough: http://rebmakash.tumblr.com/post/135298650760/ah-the-poll-man-i-wish-it-was-a-closer-race
There were some great images floating around during this match, and I saved the best of them so that they could be immortalized here in the PCA.
http://dreemurr-reborn.tumblr.com/post/135176574521/get-ready-to-vote-folks-tomorrow-is-judgement
http://i.imgur.com/43nlvQf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pNMZr5C.png
Any prayer that Ocarina had of winning this match died before it ever began once Kotaku put this article up during the Ocarina/SMRPG match: http://kotaku.com/undertale-is-tearing-gamefaqs-apart-1747991599
On top of that, r/Undertale "banned rallies" with a sticky topic at the top of the subreddit asking people not to beg for votes on GameFAQs. It all added up to Zelda getting absolutely smashed right from the start, with numbers and vote intakes that were even higher than what Draven was pulling off during the finals two years ago. I want to point out that the final that year happened during worlds, with a rally topic that made it to the top of r/all. Undertale at the beginning of this poll pulled in much higher numbers than even that. This match was not a match at all. It was a coronation; the crowning of a new contest paradigm that is here to stay. The entire internet showed up to vote for Undertale during this final, much like how it did for Draven in 2013, L-Block in 2007, and Cloud in 2003. You don't see blowouts like this in the finals very often, and for that reason the actual Undertale comparison here is very apt.
Undertale spoilers are here for those who haven't played the game yet, which won't translate to the wiki but if you're reading this years from now and still haven't played Undertale that's your own fault. If Melee was Sans, Ocarina was Asgore. Sans was the true final boss, while Asgore just got ran the fuck over. For that reason the theme for this match was obvious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcamjcoRmrQ
By percentage, here are the only 1v1 finals matches that were bigger blowouts than Undertale > Ocarina:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/1002-tournament-final-mario-vs-link
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/1663-tournament-final-chrono-trigger-vs-final-fantasy-vii
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/2019-tournament-final-sephiroth-vs-ganondorf
Undertale actually threatened to stay above 60% for quite a long time during this match, but Zelda's day vote helped it save some shred of dignity in losing so badly. It even managed to win a single update... by one vote. Good job, Zelda. We're very proud of you. I'm fairly certain Melee would have had a similar performance to Undertale in this match insofar as the entire internet just beating the shit out of Ocarina for 24 straight hours, but as it stands Undertale got to be the game enjoying the benefits of bandwagon overflow here in the final.
With that being said, I do want to make sure I give Zelda the proper respect here. As much as I enjoyed Undertale winning this contest, and as much as I've enjoyed the Zelda series getting more and more hate due to the LAW, it's the boogeyman of these contests for a reason. Like I said a long time ago during this PCA, Link and his series are the New England Patriots of these contests. The Patriots have 4 rings, should have 6 if not for the Giants making two miracle catches, and really would have 7 had Troy Brown remembered to run an out route in the 2007 AFC title game. When you beat the Patriots, you barely beat them or you get really lucky.
Link is the same way. You either barely beat him, get a huge rally on your side, or get very lucky. We've had 16 contests in the history of this site. Link, in some form or another, has won 10 of them: Summer 2002 (characters), Summer 2004 (characters), Summer 2005 (characters), Spring 2006 (series), Summer 2006 (characters), Summer 2008 (4-way characters), Summer 2009 (4-way games), Winter 2010 (characters), Game of the Decade (games), and Rivalry Rumble (2v2 characters). He could easily have more titles, but when he loses, he usually loses due to an insane rally or weird circumstance. Link even got to experience what it felt like to be on the good side of a rally when Majora won Game of the Decade. The man really does always win and has done it all.
Because I've enjoyed LISTS™ during this PCA, I present my final list. Contests that Zelda did not win, aka Link's losses:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/1365-tournament-semifinal-link-vs-cloud-strife
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/1659-division-final-final-fantasy-vii-vs-the-legend-of-zelda
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/2019-tournament-final-sephiroth-vs-ganondorf
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/2925-tournament-final-link-cloud-l-block-snake
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5253-character-battle-ix-division-1-final-link-vs-shepard-vs
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/6177-best-game-ever-final-undertale-vs-zelda-ocarina-of-time
The villains contest can be thrown out, since was designed for Sephiroth to win and to set up the Tournament of Champions (an increasingly stupid idea with each passing year). In 2003, the entire internet ganged up on Link as backlash for Wind Waker and gave Cloud the win. In 2007, the entire internet ganged up on Link because L-Block winning this contest was such a cool story bro. In 2013, the entire internet ganged up on Link as Draven's rally mowed over this contest. In 2015, the entire internet ganged up on Link because Undertale's run was the much better story and finishing the job was a necessity.
Of those 6 Zelda contest losses, 4 were due to outside rallies. 1 was due to Sephiroth being handed a contest for free. The only legitimate contest loss Zelda has ever suffered was in 2004, when Final Fantasy 7 beat Ocarina in a match that was never in doubt. And even then, one could make the excuse that the site redesign mid-contest shrank vote totals and messed with a lot of results. Had that match happened under the old site design with higher vote totals, who really knows what happens?
Point being, outside rallies are the only thing stopping Zelda from being 14-2 in contests. You are objectively wrong if you think rallies are bad for contests, because if contests didn't have them, I'm confident we would no longer have contests. Not without Link/Ocarina/Zelda getting banned or having dumb stuff like Tournament of Champions, anyway. Anti-rally people who only want the status quo are objectively in the wrong, and are just as bad as anyone supporting any dumb law of dumb status quo. You just are. Do you really want Zelda going 14-2 in contests? I don't. You nutjobs can sit there and act like the 96% that refused to join the Revolutionary War. I'll continue to stay here and fight for what's right.
That will sound like an extreme analogy, but it really isn't. History always changes thanks to vocal minorities with the moral high ground. Only 4% of people supported the Revolutionary War. Just last year in 2014, gay marriage was illegal in most states. And just six years ago, no game releaed after 1999 would have ever won a GameFAQs contest. There are millions of examples out there of people being forced to change their ways to make humanity better. All you anti-rally people who want to prop up the 90s at the expense of everything else are in the wrong, and you are going to continue being on the wrong side of gaming history. We continue to have contests because of rallies making them more fun. If you disagree, go look at that Zelda contest list I just posted. 14-2. You are objectively incorrect and will continue to be objectively incorrect. If such rallies have to happen every year until my position is seen as the majority view, so be it.
“In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” -Mark Twain
Hate on my position all you want, but you'll be on my side of the fence eventually. I'd support even things like Shadow of the Colossus or Cory in the House rallying to win contests. They make contests more fun and don't mean "lol Zelda wins" every year. And don't even pretend you people wouldn't have all supported Melee winning this final instead of Undertale, even after shitting on it for beating your precious Chrono Trigger. You either support all rallies, or none of them. Picking and choosing based on psychological standards is just as bad as hating them all, if not worse.
Good games were made after 1999. Try playing a few! I love the 90s too, don't get me wrong, but we're two decades past it now and gaming has improved. Really. It has. Come on over to my side of the fence, gentlemen, it's nice here <3
Ctes' Analysis[]
Remember back after Mass Effect 3 lost when people thought Ocarina of Time had a chance to stop Undertale? I'm sure even Heroic Mario had stopped believing that Undertale could lose the finale at this point, but man, Ocarina of Time was never even in the match. It looked like the whole internet came raging forward in a very similar manner to the end of L-Blocks marvelous run back in 2007. Pressing F5 up until the freeze was particularly brutal. Undertale was actually tripling Ocarina of Time briefly, though at the time of the freeze Ocarina of Time had avoided being doubled. The final score doesn't look like that much of beatdown, but the vote difference was insane. It was above 1000 at the freeze and above 7000 after an hour. In less than two hours the vote difference had five digits, in other words, it took no time to reach above the biggest lead a loser has ever had and it was Undertale itself that came back from being down so much. The votals were looking to set an all-time record too!
Ocarina of Time stood absolutely no chance today. It sounds weird to say, but the match was over before it ended. Seeing posts like “At least OoT is avoiding the doubling” and “Can OoT even make a cut all” all over board was very absurd and is very likely to be one time experience. A comeback would never happen, but no one even bothered trying. Undertale was the absolute worst rallied opponent Ocarina of Time could've faced I think and obviously the finale is the worst time to do so. I think people would've tried had it been a different game though. Say League of Legends actually had made it in and got rallied heavily. Ocarina of Time would probably lose, but people would be trying to rally and successful rallies could probably be made. I'm sure it would have ended in a similar way to the 2013 finale where Snake fought bravely, but still lost easily.
Undertale is a recently released indie game. It's huge on the internet right now, but it's still an indie game. It would be extremely difficult to get people to vote for the best reviewed game of all time against an indie game to begin with, but in the finale? Forget it. Some games have fanbases that would be dedicated enough to make some kind of attempt here, but they would still fail horribly! The further we got into the contest, the more fun it was to root for the “underdog” as a recently released indie game would always be viewed as. Whatever Undertale faced in the finale would go down big time. Ocarina of Time not encountering Undertale earlier makes it far more brutal though. The defending champion that people are tired of getting too much praise is the perfect final opponent for Undertale with the run it had. It's a bit ironic that Ocarina of Time ended up doing worse on Undertale than every single other opponent it faced, but no shame in that really. Only Melee and RBY would have a chance at doing better at this point. Raw x-stats can't be taken seriously when Undertale had a noticeable increase in strength every single round.
As the match went on, Undertale slowed down. Its lead was so big that there was no point in doing anything. Ocarina of Time naturally recovered quite a bit in percentage as a result of this, but Undertale kept winning fairly huge updates for most of the time though. In the morning there were some close calls and this was the most fun part of the match. When Undertale started only winning updates by 10 votes or so every now and thne, we were really rooting for Ocarina of Time to win an update. In relation to what I said earlier, seeing posts such as “Will OoT actually win an update?” is really unusual too. Occasionally, when Ocarina of Time only lost an update by those 10 votes, we got really hyped, then it lost the next one by 70 or so usually, but it was still fun.
Then at the 10:30 mark, it happened. Ocarina of Time made a cut. It made a single vote cut. This would be the only time during the whole match where Ocarina of Time cut, but it happened. Ocarina of Time actually made a cut. It sounds so unreal to put it this way. Even in some really one-sided matches, it happens that the losing game wins an update a few times doing the match. Ocarina of Time of all games was getting beaten down so badly that we were celebrating when it cut a single vote off of Undertale's lead. It sounds rather silly to get so excited about the lead changing from 14835 to 14834, but why go out and whine about a rally force winning once again when we can have fun this way instead. When you've been a regular here for a long time, you've seen Zelda dominate all sorts contests. At its worst, it gets second place. In the 2004 it had the second strongest entry though fell short of the finale due to bracket placement. Still, second best is its worst. Despite the beat down today, it's probably still the second best the bracket has. The strongest Zelda entry in the contest has a match where it's not even a certainty that it'll win an update, that's just a moment to enjoy. Despite disliking the way it lost, it was fun to have Ocarina of Time be such a massive underdog as it was today. It might just never happen again.
While the votals were on track to reach a new high, that didn't happen, and it didn't come close either. With 156604 total votes cast, there was still a while before we would have reached the insane 195360 total votes the 2007 finale got. I guess it's partly because our average votals were higher back then, but also that the match back then, while never in doubt, was at least more intense that this. Link lost, but wasn't getting destroyed that badly by L-Block. He even cut a solid chunk of L-Blocks lead during the middle of the match. Cloud also held up like a king back then. L-Block still wins, but I'm sure the match would've been had Cloud and Snake not been there. Today was never close, so at some point there was no point in spreading the match further. There was absolutely no way Ocarina of Time could come back, so why bother. That's likely the main reason as to why this match didn't come close to the 2007 in votals despite being on track to beat it at first.
Undertale was the favorite to win the contest the moment it took the lead from Mass Effect 3 back in round 1. While people said it made it more interesting who would win the contest, I don't think it did, though at least RBY and Melee proved to be worthy opponents, so the run wasn't boring. Undertale was definitely gonna do the same each round. When a rally is big enough to swallow the average GameFAQs votals, there is little to be done. The opponents need to be able to rally themselves then and that's practically impossible against Undertale. Plus, it's still a major challenge even if you can counterrally, as we saw in the Melee match. Despite being in a tough division, Undertale had excellent bracket placement to pull this off. Had its round 1 opponent just been ever so slightly stronger than Mass Effect 3, the miracle run would never even begin. Its following opponents were just strong enough to provide seemingly interesting matches and allow the word to be spread. Had RBY and Melee encountered Undertale a bit earlier than they did, it likely loses to them as well. It's an endless discussion, but I think RBY beats Undertale in round 2 and Melee as far as the division finals. The contest itself came at a perhaps time for Undertale. Perhaps just half a year later, it wouldn't be hot enough to pull off the round 1 upset anymore.
With that said, Undertale's rally was at least entertaining and interesting. While it did practically swallow our contest, it was usually behind for a while every round. It would've lost a 12-hour match the first four rounds if we still had those. That made it seem like less of a beast, unlike Draven who just blasted the poll to pieces right away. Whether or not you enjoy large rallies, you gotta admit this was more fun to follow than Draven's run. It's a huge shame that a major reason as to why people jumped on the rally was that it would make the winner less obvious though. Perhaps we couldn't know, but seeing Chrono Trigger or RBY make a real run would've made the finale way more interesting. Melee also got in the way of this in the end, so the close Ocarina of Time finale was far from happening. But still, Chrono Trigger vs. Ocarina of Time would've been such a fantastic finale. It's a real shame that didn't happen.
Regardless, congratulations to Undertale for officially claiming the title of Best Game Ever on GameFAQs, succeeding Final Fantasy VII and The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Personally, I don't think it deserves the title. It's great for what it is, a short indie game, but it's not the best game ever. It has some solid humor and a unique battle system, but it's not the best we've seen. It's main appeal is definitely how every little action has such a big impact. It does this better than most games that works this way and naturally has a high replay value because of this. It definitely exceeded what you can expect of it, which made it big when it came out, just in time for the contest. That said, I doubt it would've gotten the same internet appeal if a major game developer created it. Don't get me wrong, Undertale is a great game, and obviously not everyone can agree on what the best game ever is, but I believe it's worth throwing an opinion out on.
In future contests, Undertale will likely be stronger because of having won this one than it otherwise would. It's natural strength in the future will definitely be greater than what we saw it was back in round 1. I don't think it'll be near elite though. It'll likely be similar to L-Block in character battles after its victory. It'll be a noteworthy game in the bracket that can potentially win a couple of rounds, but when put against a strong entry, it'll lose. I really doubt people will care to rally for it again. Plus, being the defending champion, such a rally just wouldn't have the same appeal. Perhaps if Melee had won, it would just repeat the same progress in future contests, but the way the Undertale rallies went, this is definitely the only time the game will win.
I do find it to be a shame that twice and a row now our contests have been decided based on what entry can get a strong enough outside force. More voters are great, but when they're not even sticking around and they're all coming from the same fanbase, I prefer just having the usual voters around. Undertale definitely improved votals overall, but the amount of people that stayed for non-Undertale matches were still relatively small. Back when L-Block won, it was fun because it was so unusual at the time. Plus, it was a Tetris block, everybody and their mother has player Tetris. It wasn't a particular fanbase that carried it, it was just a very large bandwagon. Also helps that L-Block never really swallowed a match the way Undertale and Draven has done. It stayed a lot more consistent every match. Either way, it's fun one time, but I find it tough to enjoy when it's the standard. I can see why some people do enjoy it, but I personally prefer to have entrants fight on a more equal ground than how it was in Undertale's matches.
This is obviously not the exciting finale that one could have hoped for, but honestly, the finales never really are, so it's not good. The great 1-vote cut definitely marks the highlight of match. It's hilarious that Ocarina of Time only made one single cut and that said cut was by a single vote. Perfection right there. I suppose it's the perfect end to an underdog run, if you want to call this run that. The board wasn't as chaotic as it had been throughout the contest at least, mainly because by far the most people had accepted Undertale's victory at this point. I can say that despite not being too found of the way Undertale won, I had more fun doing this finale than I've had going most finales.